@murun now that is very odd indeed..and havers was part of the ring is that right?
Not as far as I know. He was definitely a protector of the Establishment, and much of that protection seems to have been given to Establishment paedophiles. He was a key figure in the Sir Peter Hayman cover-up, and attacked Geoffrey Dickens for trying to expose Hayman.
@murun ok i wasnt sure..and yet they denied a cover up..in the indy article i see when they interviewed the kids there it was said that the abuse was overlooked and statements were taken from kids just to prosecute carol and haroon..is that right??
Yes that’s correct, they also tried to prosecute two members of Elm Guest House staff, a 39 year old doorman and a 17 year old ‘masseur’, but they were acquitted. The Kasir’s trial was held at the Old Bailey in May 1983, I’ve just managed to find the news reports about this and will be posting it in the next few days.
@murun its good that you will be posting that stuff re elm house prosecutions..it seems to back up quite why richmond CID may have been at fault,,which is very odd what with the radio in plaster arm stuff..what was the police expecting there? an unruly house? just a brothel?..or something more? what happened to the statements that were taken i gather there were quite a lot? there was stuff about residents seeing minibuses with children in at the time is that correct?
@murun i wil tell you what is sickening..they have the nerve to censor anything bad said against CSA..and yet images (hentai – japanese ‘artwork’) of children tied up and tortured in ‘sex bondage’ images is freely available in the thousands…
@murun sorry about this but when you read this crap “May 31, 2008 – I’m looking for pictures of Lolis being tortured (preferably while naked). By this, I mean getting slapped or spanked, something forced inside her .”
wtf??? has the world gone nuts???
Just because they aren’t photographic images doesn’t mean they’re not illegal, ex-PIE leader Steven Smith (aka Steven Adrian/Freeman) and others have been prosecuted for possession of drawings. Report it here: http://www.iwf.org.uk/
@murun thats good, i dont understand it all..the depiction of deliberate sadistic cruelty to children for entertainment or gratification is warped..point is its not just freely available its almost widepread..
@murun sorry mate but i’m the inquisitive type,,were the officers who already gained access to the premises and in place were they pretending to be abusers or just ordinary ‘gay’ punters..because if they were pretending to be abusers then they must have suspected stuff,,its said by residents that prior to the raid officers were practically hiding behind trees watching to the degree it almost became a joke
They knew there were children from Richmond council-run children’s homes in attendance and had Terry Earland from the council with them. No idea whether they were posing as gays or paedophiles but to many the word ‘homosexual’ seems to have meant ‘same sex’ regardless of age. Fleet Street often reported on ‘homosexual scandals’ when they meant same sex child abuse.
@murun well thats pretty damning then and what with the spartacus sign on the door too, did the police know what that was about? i notice that ‘rent boys’ mean ‘vice’ but in those cases ‘rent boys’ were the innocent kids in care..were the police following the mail and connections to spartacus?? did spartacus owners visit the guest house? i guess they covered up the VIP bit but where did the VIP bit come from? it must have come from somewhere..
No idea if the police knew the significance of Spartacus but Peter Glencross from Spartacus helped the Kasirs set Elm Guest House up as a destination for paedophiles – check Exaro reports, I think that is where I read it.
@murun..hmm murkier by the minute…but i am sure there were reports of minibuses with children inside turning up at the rocks lane address..and if the police were watching the place then surely to god there would be surveillance photos of who visited the place who went in and out..
The Sunday Times reporter was Harry Coen, ex-chairman of CHE who were affiliated to the Paedophile Information Exchange, so he would have had a motive not to expose the paedophile activities at an ostensibly ‘gay’ guest house.
spotlight 
@murun thats the thing with denials.. it only draws attention to the fact that something dodgy was going on..
Well we can all see that was cobblers. People have said a list was already in the cops possession.
Another denial here, this time from the Sunday Times: https://spotlightonabuse.wordpress.com/2013/04/11/gay-security-threat-denied-8-8-82/
Note that the Sunday Times was the only Fleet Street paper to escape censure from the Attorney General Sir Michael Havers over Elm Guest House coverage. https://spotlightonabuse.wordpress.com/2013/04/08/attorney-general-to-probe-london-brothel-reports-13-8-82/
@murun now that is very odd indeed..and havers was part of the ring is that right?
Not as far as I know. He was definitely a protector of the Establishment, and much of that protection seems to have been given to Establishment paedophiles. He was a key figure in the Sir Peter Hayman cover-up, and attacked Geoffrey Dickens for trying to expose Hayman.
@murun ok i wasnt sure..and yet they denied a cover up..in the indy article i see when they interviewed the kids there it was said that the abuse was overlooked and statements were taken from kids just to prosecute carol and haroon..is that right??
Yes that’s correct, they also tried to prosecute two members of Elm Guest House staff, a 39 year old doorman and a 17 year old ‘masseur’, but they were acquitted. The Kasir’s trial was held at the Old Bailey in May 1983, I’ve just managed to find the news reports about this and will be posting it in the next few days.
@murun its good that you will be posting that stuff re elm house prosecutions..it seems to back up quite why richmond CID may have been at fault,,which is very odd what with the radio in plaster arm stuff..what was the police expecting there? an unruly house? just a brothel?..or something more? what happened to the statements that were taken i gather there were quite a lot? there was stuff about residents seeing minibuses with children in at the time is that correct?
@murun i wil tell you what is sickening..they have the nerve to censor anything bad said against CSA..and yet images (hentai – japanese ‘artwork’) of children tied up and tortured in ‘sex bondage’ images is freely available in the thousands…
@murun sorry about this but when you read this crap “May 31, 2008 – I’m looking for pictures of Lolis being tortured (preferably while naked). By this, I mean getting slapped or spanked, something forced inside her .”
wtf??? has the world gone nuts???
Just because they aren’t photographic images doesn’t mean they’re not illegal, ex-PIE leader Steven Smith (aka Steven Adrian/Freeman) and others have been prosecuted for possession of drawings. Report it here: http://www.iwf.org.uk/
@murun thats good, i dont understand it all..the depiction of deliberate sadistic cruelty to children for entertainment or gratification is warped..point is its not just freely available its almost widepread..
@murun sorry mate but i’m the inquisitive type,,were the officers who already gained access to the premises and in place were they pretending to be abusers or just ordinary ‘gay’ punters..because if they were pretending to be abusers then they must have suspected stuff,,its said by residents that prior to the raid officers were practically hiding behind trees watching to the degree it almost became a joke
They knew there were children from Richmond council-run children’s homes in attendance and had Terry Earland from the council with them. No idea whether they were posing as gays or paedophiles but to many the word ‘homosexual’ seems to have meant ‘same sex’ regardless of age. Fleet Street often reported on ‘homosexual scandals’ when they meant same sex child abuse.
@murun well thats pretty damning then and what with the spartacus sign on the door too, did the police know what that was about? i notice that ‘rent boys’ mean ‘vice’ but in those cases ‘rent boys’ were the innocent kids in care..were the police following the mail and connections to spartacus?? did spartacus owners visit the guest house? i guess they covered up the VIP bit but where did the VIP bit come from? it must have come from somewhere..
No idea if the police knew the significance of Spartacus but Peter Glencross from Spartacus helped the Kasirs set Elm Guest House up as a destination for paedophiles – check Exaro reports, I think that is where I read it.
@murun..hmm murkier by the minute…but i am sure there were reports of minibuses with children inside turning up at the rocks lane address..and if the police were watching the place then surely to god there would be surveillance photos of who visited the place who went in and out..
The Sunday Times reporter was Harry Coen, ex-chairman of CHE who were affiliated to the Paedophile Information Exchange, so he would have had a motive not to expose the paedophile activities at an ostensibly ‘gay’ guest house.
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